LightEnough wrote:
--snip--
When I look at them it's mostly the photographers who post them, seldom from the models.

from the casting calls rules:
2. Casting calls cannot request payment of any kind, nor require that the applicants compensate the person posting the casting call or any third parties.

Typically, here at MM, photographers hire models, seldom is it models hiring photographers. Models tend to use Travel / Availability Notices, and are looking for compensation. The models tend to use Travel / Availability Notices for trade work as well unless they are seeking a very specific concept to be shot.

Joe Tomasone wrote:
Note that doing this excessively - especially to photographers who state on their profile that they do not want to hear from traveling models - is considered spam by MM's rules, and complaints will eventually lead to action being taken.  Yes, we get those complaints frequently.   A few PMs to members in an area you're going to is fine, but carpet-bombing PMs to members in that area is a no-no.  Mass dissemination of your travel plans and desire to work is precisely what the travel notices are for.

This is why most of us just use instagram now and many have stopped paying for an account here.
I get that we shouldn't be sending out messages to those who state that they do not wish to be contacted, but the whole point of this place is to be able to message photographers to solicit work while we're in their area. If that's considered spam by the website, I guess that's good to know!

Most photographers I know don't even check the travel postings here anymore - I've posted travel notices for NYC in the last year and gotten barely any views on it. In NYC of all places! Prior to 2020, the site was very usable while traveling. Now it's functionally useless.

Lallure Photographic wrote:
There doesn't seem to be any real reason to use traveling models, as they always quote ridiculous fees. Without any decent local models to contact, there no longer seems to be anything working on this site at all. While I can attribute some of that to the pandemic, and the negative long term effects of that, I think other factors are playing a role as well. In my location it just seems pointless, as the only one worth even trying, doesn't respond. I think this site has seen its best days, and there may still be some places that are active, but judging from the forum activity, I am not seeing anything to indicate that is true. Nor do the models participate very much at all. Just the ones who send out travel notices.

Best option for photographers, seems to be social media, or local colleges, unless they have paying clients, and can go to regular agencies, for the models, to be billed directly to the clients. I am no longer in such an area, as a retiree, so I can no longer go to professional agencies, and most are not interested in retired photogs, anyway........they want frequent use  of models, photographers, for commercial work, and not retirees.

SO, I am not seeing any benefits from this site, in the current situation. There has been a dismal amount of traffic on the site, since I recovered from cancer, as well. Disappointing.

I would like to make a quick note that, though we may charge "ridiculous" fees, those of us who are traveling models do tend to be "decent" and we respond to our emails. Something to consider 😉

Liv Sage wrote:
Should that be cheap?
Should it even be affordable?
If your daughter was doing it, would you want her to charge a lot of money or very little?

I get the logic of it.... but I used to regularly negotiate workable fees with traveling models,
now it just seems many want a months living expenses in exchange for a 2 hour shoot.

It doesn't have to be "cheap" but some middle ground would be nice.

Lallure Photographic wrote:
I know the odds of getting a model from this site, in its current condition, are very slim to none, at least in my local area, which is all I care about.

As you have found the location thing does really limit what is available,
but your expectations are a huge limiting factor

Your view best practices, good photography, and model requirements from a commercial perspective,
That is not and never was the target market of Model Mayhem.
Yes, you can find some models here that fit the commercial ideal....
but mostly this site has always been dominated by alt models, glam models, art models, and amateurs.
The same is true for photographers....

Lallure Photographic wrote:
When 5'2" models are "interested in fashion", that is simply an entirely uninformed person, who is literally wasting their time, trying to become a fashion model. That will never happen, of course, because fashion models in particular, must fit the required mold, including new models.

This makes me smile,
and while you may be right there are models here on the Mayhem who will fight you to the end of time on this.

I think there were literally dozens of epic threads on this during the heyday of MM.

Lallure Photographic wrote:
"this site has always been dominated by alt models, glam models, art models, and amateurs.
The same is true for photographers...."

That may be true, as I have only been on here, a short time, but if the site is to be of any useful purpose, Reality has to be found here, or there will continue to be little real activity, between models and photographers, as is the current condition, as far as anyone can discern, from the lack of activity here.

The site is not attracting any model activity that is realistic at all, in my view, and I hear that echoed on these forums, as photographers are not finding any models here, from other places, besides mine, as well.

I expected models here to be more amateur, but when they quote rates like a professional agency, it becomes laughable. When you consider this is a world wide on line site, the amount of activity is certainly minimal.

I am not looking for pro models, I am just looking for models that are interested in modeling, as long as they understand, this site is for those who seek to model on an irregular basis, and not professionally. When 5'2" models are "interested in fashion", that is simply an entirely uninformed person, who is literally wasting their time, trying to become a fashion model. That will never happen, of course, because fashion models in particular, must fit the required mold, including new models.

In my opinion you are wrong about a whole lot of things. Your negative attitude towards freelance models on a freelance model site is exactly what has driven models away from here.
Freelance models quote rates like professional agencies because we are our own agency. We handle our own booking, scheduling, marketing and bookkeeping. Traveling models are typically experts at photoshoot makeup.
Most freelance models come to the shoot camera-ready. We have taken time to do our own makeup and hair - you aren't paying for 2 hours in the MUAH chair.
Typically, most photographers here are asking models to sign unlimited releases. They have usage rights that last forever. You can sell those images or post them anywhere you like.
Also, we are willing to shoot at your home, in your basement, in your yard, wherever. You aren't going to get an agency to send a model to your house without a full crew there for her safety. Many of us accept bookings in our own homes, so we provide locations free of charge too.
Maybe you haven't noticed, but even agency models aren't all traditional "agency standard" anymore. Fashion designers have expanded in recent years to include short, plus size, tattooed, culturally diverse, disabled and mature models.. Not everyone is looking for a stick figure, and if that is what you want you still have to start somewhere.
There aren't many models active here because of attitudes like yours. I am 60 and 5'4" and haven't been accepting bookings since 2020 and I still get offers every single week from people willing to my my full rates.
Money makes the world go around, and if you want to offer low rates and accept only a narrow subset of available models, then you get what you get. Just stop complaining as if you have no control over it.

Chris Macan wrote:
I get the logic of it.... but I used to regularly negotiate workable fees with traveling models,
now it just seems many want a months living expenses in exchange for a 2 hour shoot.

It doesn't have to be "cheap" but some middle ground would be nice.

I don't know a single traveling model charging a month's living expenses for a 2 hour shoot. Unless you are still under the impression that $300-400 is a month's worth of living expenses (it's absolutely not).
A month's living expenses now is a minimum of $1000. I don't know a single traveling model who is charging that for a 2 hour shoot.

Lallure Photographic wrote:
This site is for those who seek to model on an irregular basis, and not professionally.

This is not true.
This site is for freelancers to network for a job.
Why is it being assumed the site is for photographers to get access to random, unserious women to pose for very little money.

Cue the post about how models are leaving or not using the site. No kidding.

I'd also like to note that this post is in the modeling forum. Lol.

Model MoRina wrote:
In my opinion you are wrong about a whole lot of things. Your negative attitude towards freelance models on a freelance model site is exactly what has driven models away from here.
Freelance models quote rates like professional agencies because we are our own agency. We handle our own booking, scheduling, marketing and bookkeeping. Traveling models are typically experts at photoshoot makeup.
Most freelance models come to the shoot camera-ready. We have taken time to do our own makeup and hair - you aren't paying for 2 hours in the MUAH chair.
Typically, most photographers here are asking models to sign unlimited releases. They have usage rights that last forever. You can sell those images or post them anywhere you like.
Also, we are willing to shoot at your home, in your basement, in your yard, wherever. You aren't going to get an agency to send a model to your house without a full crew there for her safety. Many of us accept bookings in our own homes, so we provide locations free of charge too.
Maybe you haven't noticed, but even agency models aren't all traditional "agency standard" anymore. Fashion designers have expanded in recent years to include short, plus size, tattooed, culturally diverse, disabled and mature models.. Not everyone is looking for a stick figure, and if that is what you want you still have to start somewhere.
There aren't many models active here because of attitudes like yours. I am 60 and 5'4" and haven't been accepting bookings since 2020 and I still get offers every single week from people willing to my my full rates.
Money makes the world go around, and if you want to offer low rates and accept only a narrow subset of available models, then you get what you get. Just stop complaining as if you have no control over it.

Absolutely, 100% agree.

Liv Sage wrote:
I don't know a single traveling model charging a month's living expenses for a 2 hour shoot. Unless you are still under the impression that $300-400 is a month's worth of living expenses (it's absolutely not).
A month's living expenses now is a minimum of $1000. I don't know a single traveling model who is charging that for a 2 hour shoot.

Sorry Liv.... you are correct I do tend towards dramatic exaggeration,
and yet models quoting $500/hr do exist on MM.

But yes, $300-$500 for a two hour shoot does seem to be the normal quote I see in my in box from traveling models.


My status as a self funded artist and working style of quick 1 hour or less shoots doesn't generally work for traveling models as anything more that filler between longer better paying bookings.
And dropping $300-500 for 45 minutes of studio time doesn't generally work for me.

I get it, it's a matter of economics and time management.

Lallure Photographic wrote:
MoRina, I doubt you are doing much modeling, where you are located. Just saying.

I keep my location private because I am no longer accepting bookings from photographers on this site.

I am in front of the camera every single week. I work for myself and I am doing extremely well. I own two homes and a new car and have zero debt. So, don't worry about me, sweetie. I am doing just fine.

Liv Sage wrote:

I don't know a single traveling model charging a month's living expenses for a 2 hour shoot. Unless you are still under the impression that $300-400 is a month's worth of living expenses (it's absolutely not).
A month's living expenses now is a minimum of $1000. I don't know a single traveling model who is charging that for a 2 hour shoot.

It's great when photographers do their research. So I've checked your rates already. You are right in the ballpark of what I consider perfect modeling rates for my black & white art project that I wish to shoot with my film camera.  I want to travel North from California to Oregon and Washington when it warms up enough this Summer.  Modelmayhem and Patreon just might be the only places one can post artistic nudes. That's for a whole other post in Off Topic I guess.  I would pay $300 for two hours no problem. When planning a photo shoot, I make sure to budget for the models payment before booking!

PikaFlika wrote:
For Models: What is your experience with posting casing calls on Mayhem? Especially for travel models who may want to line up jobs in a particular city a month or so ahead of time?  Are casting calls safe for you as a female model?  When I look at them it's mostly the photographers who post them, seldom from the models.

The negativity in the forums has caused many models to leave Modelmayhem but there are many still here.  I've been here 20 years and have seen a lot.  There was a time when posting on the forums was an obsession for me.  Just look at my comment count!  I hardly ever have read the castings much less use them.  I send messages directly to the models I am interested in.  Most often I am paying models, unless they contact me first for a paid gig, or we both have a concept that we would like to do in a mutual trade.  I am not a fan of the messaging set up here anymore, so making contact on MM then switching to another platform, email, or cellphone texts messaging is typical.  Hope you are getting your answers.

Patrick Walberg wrote:
Modelmayhem and Patreon just might be the only places one can post artistic nudes. That's for a whole other post in Off Topic I guess.

Nope, there are several other commonly used options, 
(BlueSky, Figuremodels.org, modelsociety, ModelFolio)
but MM and Patreon are good choices.

Chris Macan wrote:

Nope, there are several other commonly used options, 
(BlueSky, Figuremodels.org, modelsociety, ModelFolio)
but MM and Patreon are good choices.

I've been starting to use BlueSky  .. for some odd reason I was not accepted on ModelSociety but I'll check the other two  for sure .. there can always be more.

Liv Sage wrote:
I’ve been doing this full time for a decade, and I’m not in poverty. There are many people who can pay the fees. I know they’re high, but think about what this service is - a pretty woman showing up to your location, letting you take nude photographs of her, signing a release form for those photos that allows you to post them on the internet into perpetuity.

Should that be cheap?
Should it even be affordable?
If your daughter was doing it, would you want her to charge a lot of money or very little?

Let them drive for hours with directions like " Turn left at the water tower that used to be there." lol