samreevesphoto wrote:
It's just like hiring a general contractor.  If they are slow or do not even reply to your job, then you should probably pass on them.  Move on to the people who are ready to work.

Exactly.

The thing to realize is that whether your shoot is a TFP shoot, is a paid shoot, etc., it may not be of value to the model or something of interest to the model to do it. It could be a lot of things even down to how you write your introductory email.

There are times I have (what I think) is a brilliant idea for a shoot, I reach out to a dozen models, and 7 of them never respond, 3 of them say they aren't interested, one says they have other commitments, and one says they are interested and then never respond after that. It happens to all of us. The key is to find someone who shares your vision whether they are getting paid or not.

Lachance Photography wrote:
Accept that no response is a response and move on.

After trying to engage someone once or twice (at most) without success, it's wise to recognize that their non-response is indeed a response—and move on with grace.

neoracer wrote:
It’s gotten to a critical point. Pre 2020 I had girls almost begging me to shoot them. Post covid and ONLYFANS you will be lucky to get a reply. I'm tired of the constant grind after 6 years I quit.

Watch this video by a famous Australian.Photographer Peter Coulson about his frustration caused by his growing difficulty in finding models and the rise in popularity of models shooting their own media content using selfies.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E4eOKGb1D9c&ra=m

People often blame Model Mayhem for the growing down turn in models seeking to connect with photographers. I can understand this happening where the style and quality of a photographer’s work will not likely generate many hits on the model’s site, or do anything special to advance a model’s career.

With the growing decline in the actual numbers of young people wanting to pursue modelling careers, sites like MM are drifting into obscurity in the same way that many modelling agencies, fashion magazines, newspapers, photographic studios have gone and actually closed up shop.

It is difficult to deny there are a number of good reasons why a model can find life much less complicated by ‘just doing it’ for and by themselves, but not necessarily as good or better,

Sablesword wrote:
What Would Be Nice is if there were some common, generally-accepted convention for how long to wait for a response before concluding that the other person (model or otherwise) isn't interested - that the no response is a "no" response.

It's not reasonable to conclude that "no response is the response" if a model fails to respond within 3 hours. It's also not reasonable to keep waiting if there's no response after three months. Reasonable is somewhere in-between, and it Would Be Nice to have a more narrowed-down time period as the accepted convention.

I've learned that a no (response or not) is usually based on the project and/or pay. So I've either restructured the pay or changed the project. 99% of the time, they positively respond in both of our favor.

A win is a win, right?

Lucifers_Corner wrote:
I've learned that a no (response or not) is usually based on the project and/or pay. So I've either restructured the pay or changed the project. 99% of the time, they positively respond in both of our favor.

A win is a win, right?

If a model says "no" I'm willing to accept that and move on. So what I want is an agreement on when "no response is a 'no' response", rather that advice on "one weird trick" to turn it into a "yes."

Sablesword wrote:
If a model says "no" I'm willing to accept that and move on. So what I want is an agreement on when "no response is a 'no' response", rather that advice on "one weird trick" to turn it into a "yes."

It's not a weird trick, and this is all about business negotiations, not whatever the hell you're referring to. It's almost as if you've never conducted business before.

In fact... This is one of the reasons you guys get turned away. The lack of business acumen is astounding—more ego than skill all over the place.
If you're at work and have to write a proposal to land the big contract, possibly a promotion, and the boss turns it down, do you tuck your tail between your legs, or do you re-write it and resubmit it? Listening to you, you'll be stuck in your same position because what, ego? Pride? Fee-fees? You get your ass back up on that horse and try again. But I guess you're of the mindset that "eff her, she ain't spit anyway?"  HAHAHA!!!
Hell, 4 of the current, and the 3 more within the next 2 weeks from this site, models that I'm shooting have had negotiation exchanges with me. None of that would be possible without negotiations. The one I've shot the most ghosted me after responding to a casting call; now we're like peas and carrots. But you know, I'm "pulling weird tricks."

Go sit down, bruh.

Sablesword wrote:
What Would Be Nice is if there were some common, generally-accepted convention for how long to wait for a response before concluding that the other person (model or otherwise) isn't interested - that the no response is a "no" response.

It's not reasonable to conclude that "no response is the response" if a model fails to respond within 3 hours. It's also not reasonable to keep waiting if there's no response after three months. Reasonable is somewhere in-between, and it Would Be Nice to have a more narrowed-down time period as the accepted convention.

You nailed it. Waiting three hours is too short to assume a rejection, but three months is entirely too long to hold out hope. The reasonable window for a response—depends heavily on the context:

If you’ve sent the model a message via MM then your message will normally be flagged as ‘read’. You can also check the model’s profile to see when they last logged in. So you will know they are ignoring their messages when logging in.

For me though I don’t over-think things - I ask once and then move on. Others refer to my way as taking a non-response as meaning NO and move on. Both are reasonable reactions,

Lucifers_Corner wrote:
I've learned that a no (response or not) is usually based on the project and/or pay. So I've either restructured the pay or changed the project. 99% of the time, they positively respond in both of our favor.

A win is a win, right?

I feel you may be selling both yourself as a photographer and perhaps some models a little short with your “project and/or pay” strategy.

Sure flash enough cash and you’ll likely generate more interest and back the cash up with an attention-grabbing-project that you feel will appeal to the model you are wanting to shoot with.

However I can’t help feel what ultimately influences a model’s final decision on whether or not to accept is the quality of a photographer’s portfolio. Even if it’s just to confirm the calibre of the photographers images look as though they have been taken by someone who knows the difference between an f-stop and a g-spot.

Camera Buff wrote:

I feel you may be selling both yourself as a photographer and perhaps some models a little short with your “project and/or pay” strategy.

Sure flash enough cash and you’ll likely generate more interest and back the cash up with an attention-grabbing-project that you feel will appeal to the model you are wanting to shoot with.

However I can’t help feel what ultimately influences a model’s final decision on whether or not to accept is the quality of a photographer’s portfolio. Even if it’s just to confirm the calibre of the photographers images look as though they have been taken by someone who knows the difference between an f-stop and a g-spot.

I'm not. The point of this site, or the business as a whole, is to create art. Whether it gets sold or gets likes on social media is based on the producers, but I digress.

Most models work for money. They have their price points, and you have yours (generally speaking). If they meet in the middle, more often than not, a deal is struck based on the project. Sometimes the details may be beyond their scope, or for whatever reason, during negotiations, they pass. Maybe too far away, maybe the photog made them feel unsafe during the booking stage, maybe you don't allow escorts, etc...  But the biggest thing that they do take into account is "Is the money worth it?"
Prime example: if I contact a model and I'm trying to shoot for $200, my price point, but she says she's not doing anything for under $400. Who's being sold short, here? So I can either meet her price point or move on. This is what I mean by more money.

Art is subjective. Hell, people sold farts and bath water. How crazy would we be basing what we do on the opinions of strangers? That would be weird, right? Sure, we can have our opinions, but we know what they say about opinions.

Camera Buff wrote:
My apologies if my message about selling yourself short was taken to be in reference to modelling fees. It is an Australian/English term "to not consider someone or something to be as valuable or good as he, she, or it deserves"

The thread is asking what to do when models may not be responding to each and every photographer's message. I was suggesting that discerning models who wish to improve their skills and the standard of imagery in their portfolio would likely take into account the expertise and craftsmanship on display in the portfolios of those photographers who message them with work offers.

In your case the style and expertise on display in your portfolio would / should give you a better chance of success over other well meaning but much less talented photographers and or fauxtographers.

Of course working models who need to make a living to pay their bills, etc. may not always be in a financial situation where they can afford to be too discerning and may therefore be more prepared to respond to all paid work offers.

Ah, ok lol.
I never took offense to what you were saying. So excuse me if I came across as argumentative, for I like to debate. Have a pint on me, mate.

Bob Helm Photography wrote:
Move on

If you'd rather not read our conversations you can always jump into a different conversation. Perhaps one of your own making.

Fair enough, your rude command to “move on” also happens to be our wish.

Besides, I think we were well past the process of having wrapped up our conversation.

Camera Buff wrote:
If you'd rather not read our conversations you can always jump into a different conversation. Perhaps one of your own making.

Fair enough, your rude command to “move on” also happens to be our wish.

Besides, I think we were well past the process of having wrapped up our conversation.

I don't want to speak for Mr Helm, but when I read his post it seemed like he was answering the question posed by the OP, not addressing your debate in the thread.

LightRasp wrote:
my post deleted b/c it was inflammatory?

OK


here is a message I got:

"Hello John ,
By the way,what did you like about me the most and what caught your eye? You can be blunt and honest...Im also looking for representation and a manager...You can even use some of my photos here I already have and add them to your portfolio as my rep is you like to....That would turn me on as well to see that...but I would love to have a guy start displaying me on the internet and run my profiles....i have a ton of photos and id allow details about my life on the profiles...it just has to be free websites..no paid ones and no camera sites
even porn and escort sites as long as its free for guys to go on
We would share the password and log in user name..a guy who would love to officially manage me on the internet and kind of run like a first time "fan club"..id love that

Love Michelle  (Mishey)"



Wondering why the mods don't object to that???

This message clearly violates multiple site rules and you should have flagged it to report the member's profile. We would then remove the member from the site.

LightRasp wrote:
I'm not a mod - obviously flagging is YOUR job not mine...!

We don't spy on your messages and automatically flag them for you. We rely on the community to report members who send messages that violate the site rules.

Every message you receive has a link beneath it to "Flag Message". After a member flags the message, then the Mods can review it and take the necessary action. This is pretty standard behavior on most sites.

Troy Royster wrote:
So I have run into a recurring problem with setting up photoshoots.  I have had several times where I have emailed a model to set up a photoshoot.  I give as much detail about the photoshoot as possible (i.e., compensation, location, length of photoshoot, theme, MUA info, etc.) and yet I have been ghosted time and time.  I am lucky that I have built enough of a rapport with other models that if I do not get a reply from one model, I can find contact a model that I have previously worked with to get the shoot done.  The problem is that does not always work out, and there are models out there that I do want to work with but do not reply to emails, whether it be here on Model Mayhem, a social media account or regular email.

What should I do?

Just a wild guess, but I see that you don't pay for a MM account, so I don't suppose you pay your models either? Pay is a huge incentive to get models to take the gig seriously.

G Wilson wrote:

Just a wild guess, but I see that you don't pay for a MM account, so I don't suppose you pay your models either? Pay is a huge incentive to get models to take the gig seriously.

According to the OP’s “About Me” You are likely pursuing a false assumption.